They were at the Ramsey County Courthouse, finding out how to represent themselves in court in family-law cases -- divorce, child support and child custody.

Anecdotal evidence and national studies suggest that more people are going to court on their own behalf without the help of an attorney. And while Minnesota courts don't keep statistics about the number of cases involving parties that the legal system calls pro se litigants -- a Latin term meaning "for self" -- local courts are expanding efforts to meet the demand and finding new ways to help.

There are two Hennepin County District Court self-help centers, one in the Government Center and one at the family courts building.

Together, the centers helped 35,000 people last year. Many of those people, if not most of them, were there to get help with representing themselves.

With legal forms and basic information available through such centers or on the Internet, "There are very few [family-law] issues where people can't make a decent effort at doing it themselves," said McKenzie, a St. Paul family-law attorney.

Katrina Zabinski, a staff attorney at one of the Hennepin County self-help centers, fields questions from pro se litigants in person and through www.mncourts.gov/selfhelp. The Minnesota Judicial Branch website has been up for about a year.

"We're trying to bring the barriers down that have been in place for years on access to justice," she said.

Workstations for the website are expected to be available this summer in all of Minnesota's 87 counties. The computers are even more significant outside the metro area, as some counties have only a couple of employees to help pro se litigants.

Zabinski said that the increase in legal do-it-yourselfers can be summed up in one word: money.

"They feel like they just can't afford a lawyer," she said.

That's true not only of the poor, but also of many in the middle class, said McKenzie and M. Sue Talia, a California family-law attorney.

Talia argues that attorneys should offer more "à la carte" legal services, giving pro se litigants needed help on the most complex parts of their cases while they handle the other parts themselves.

"I have lawyers jump down my throat all the time. ... They say I only encourage pro se litigants. But I tell them that train left a long time ago, and that this is the new reality," said Talia, who will present a seminar June 28 at the Minnesota State Bar Association convention.

Continuing increase is seen

Some legal matters are designed to be dealt with pro se, such as name changes, conciliation court and the expunging of criminal records.

But the classic model of a pro se litigant is the one who goes to family court.

Studies in states including California, Florida and Wisconsin report that 70 percent or more of the family court cases in some court systems include at least one party who has no attorney.

Most of the pro se litigants Zabinski sees are either poor or non-English speakers who need translation help, she said. But Talia said that pro se litigants are "not all poor people. The middle class has trouble affording lawyers, too."

In Northern California, Talia said, family-law attorneys generally charge $250 to $500 an hour. McKenzie said she charges $240 an hour.

It's important to help pro se litigants, because the court system can get bogged down and the results "can be fairly dreadful" when some litigants argue in court for themselves, McKenzie said.

Because pro se litigants don't have legal training, it's important to help them get it right so they show up in court well-prepared and on time. But there are limits on the type of help that they can get.

Legal aid attorneys and volunteer attorneys such as McKenzie who staff legal clinics can give legal advice to pro se litigants. But self-help centers are designed to help people only with legal forms and processes.

Some judges and court referees have received training in how to deal with pro se litigants. Still, said Ramsey County District Judge Gary Bastian, who is currently assigned to family court, "When they come into court, I can't give them legal advice. I can't favor one side or another."

Hennepin County District Chief Judge Lucy Wieland said that she supports pro se and state-funded services to help litigants who are on their own.

"The argument against it is: The more services you provide, the less likely people are to hire attorneys," she said. "But this is really a response to the need people have."

She notes that indigent clients have a right to state-funded counsel in criminal cases. But there aren't enough legal aid lawyers, she said, for those who file civil cases and lack the money to hire their own attorneys.

Lawyers with Central Minnesota Legal Services who advise litigants at Hennepin County self-help centers end up representing them in court only in a few circumstances, such as when a child custody dispute involves parents who have a past history of domestic violence, said Jean Lastine, the group's executive director.

Zabinski sees only a continuing climb in the number of people handling their own legal affairs.

"Pro se litigants are here to stay," she said. "I don't see legal fees going down in price."